Moderating Mayhem

[Greg]

The topic of moderating style came up in justdave's introduction thread, and I think it's interesting enough to have a thread of its own. It started when Dave indicated that he was unhappy with the policies he experienced on Mod The Sims 2 and I asked if there were any lessons learned that we ought to know. That brought us to...

Originally Posted by justdave

...The MTS2 rules were driving me nuts. Deleted posts here, there and everywhere. Don't know where some custom content came from... plonk, your posting is deleted. Go off-topic in a thread... deleted. Constructive criticism... deleted. Some I don't have a clue why... deleted. I haven't uploaded anything there in years. Seldom post even a comment. And I prefer to be nice, keep it clean and be respectful. Your rules are easy. ...

Footnote: Sun Sims rules are right here, should anyone want to refer to them.

I haven't followed any of the discussions on MTS2 enough to get the feel of the moderating policy there. I'll admit that I am rather intimidated by the place. I have been not inclined to post anything for fear of running afoul of the board's policies.

MTS2 has become so hugely huge that I suspect it's not consistent, simply due to the need to have lots and lots of moderators to keep up with the place. It's hard enough to be consistent here on Sun Sims where there's only one moderator, and he's me!

Of course, there's really no comparison between Sun Sims and MTS2. We're by design a friendly little pub on the corner while MTS2 is more like a megalopolis. With MTS2, Delphy set out to be the biggest fish in the Sims 2 pond. When I created Sun Sims, I wanted to get away from exactly that same situation! So maybe the real lesson learned is that it's a heck of a lot harder to run a big city than it to run is a little pub.

With that introduction, I can tell you what I do in those situations.

Warning: Of necessity, this is a very negative subject so it might be a bit of a downer.

Let's start with the obvious.

Spam

Delete without comment. Ban the user.

If you see spam on either of my boards, the best thing to do is nothing at all. I'll probably spot it the next time I'm on and snuff it within a few seconds. Please don't send me a private message about spammers; it just increases my workload. Also, please don't reply to spammers and never click on any links they post.

If you have reason to think I have overlooked some spam, then please do call my attention to it. You will know that I overlooked something if I have been actively posting on this board and the spam has not disappeared.

Amusement: We have have very few problems with spammers on either of my boards, perhaps because it's not effective even for trolls who post spam just to get a reaction. The longest spam has ever been around has been a few hours. The shortest: I banned the spammer in the act of posting the junk.

Topic Drift

In most places, I don't think anybody worries about it. It can be part of the fun in the general discussion areas.

In stories, tutorials, general instructions, and areas like that where it's important to stay on topic, I do insist that posts be about the topic a thread is about. In these areas, if someone posts something off-topic that I think is interesting enough to warrant a thread of its own, I might split it off as a seperate thread. If not, I'll delete the offending post without comment.

Constructive Criticism

Offering constructive criticism is a talent that very few people have, so be very careful. In general, if you see something you don't like and the creator has not specifically requested feedback, just move on.

If someone is soliciting help and you can provide it, then by all means, go ahead and say things like "this would be better if you added some shading to the hems" or "I found holes in the UV Map."

Of course, if I thought someone was posting insults under the guise of constructive criticism, I'd treat it like any other troll.

Jerks, Trolls, Politicians, and Sea Lawyers

My policy is zero tolerance for jerky behavior; just delete the post and ban the user without comment or argument. That is a lesson learned from bitter experience. I have never had to do this on Sun Sims but I will not hesitate to do it if I have to.

The no-politics rule deserves a bit of explanation. I have found that it's just not possible to discuss politics on a board like this. Any attempt at a rational discussion leads symbol-worhippers to believe they are licensed to disrupt the board with their hate-mongering diatribes, and I just don't have the energy to moderate that kind of mess, so I don't allow politics on my boards at all. That includes politically motivated pseudoscience as well as the politics of the Sims community.

Oh, one exception: Since the harshest rules need some comic relief, it's all right to poke fun at my favorite punching bag, Al Gore. He has gone from being a full-time politician to being a full-time charlatan so I figure he deserves everything he gets. Besides, I once suggested that it might be OK to mention politicians who have been dead for at least 100 years and he's been brain-dead for longer than that.

What? You belieeeve in Algore? Well, please allow me to express my deepest sympathies. Sorry, we don't offer a deprogramming service here. Try searching the web for key words like "cult" and "intervention." I'm sure you will find the help you need.

Asking Where Custom Content Came From

Off hand, it's not obvious to me why there would be an issue about asking where custom content came from. I would encourage it as long as it doesn't lead to a reference to a criminal site.

I can think of one exception. I've seen on other boards where someone will use a sock puppet to post a leading "Where can I find..." question, and then use a different sock puppet to post the answer, advertising some other site. This has never happened on Sun Sims but if it does, I'd treat it like any other spam.

Promoting Criminal Activities

The rules are already emphatically clear on that point. Zero tolerance.

Testing the Ropes to See What You Can Get Away With

Treated the same as any other form of troll. I don't argue and very rarely issue private warnings.

In other words, I can be pretty heavy-handed and inflexible on these boards; and that is by intent. When I set up Sun Sims, I thought I'd just run the place the way I wanted it to be run and have stuff here that I like. I figured that there were probably enough folks who like the same things I do to make it a fun place to hang out on the net, and that seems to be working quite nicely.

Unlike Delphy, I'm not doing this for this for the money.* I really don't care whether Sun Sims becomes a huge site and in fact would like to keep it small and friendly. For five years, I ran the largest Sims site in the world and spent an insane amount of money doing that, so now I'm rewarding myself with a relaxing little corner of the net that's just plan fun.


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*For what it's worth, it costs a bit over a thousand bucks a year in out-of-pocket expenses to run these boards. Donations received to date wouldn't even cover the electricity to operate my home computer.

[Greg]

Afterthought: There's another advantage to having a nice little private site instead of trying for a big bucks begging board. I don't care whether folks link to other sites from here, as long as they're not part of the criminal network and it doesn't get spammy. (And for Sun Sims, at least, please avoid linking to sites with adult content.)

In fact, I would encourage it as long as the webmasters of the target sites welcome links. We all want to know where the good stuff is!

[FredsG]

WooHoo! you go Greg...I always enjoyed coming to this wonderful little quiet place to get some reasonable and sane answers to my fledgling Internet knowledge. Everyone here is intelligent, And helpful. Fortunately, I now have a computer expert sitting right next to me, and you all get to quit pulling your hair out at my (at times, lol) eye-rolling questions. Some good things do last, this place is one of them.

[Greg]

Yup, we're still here, FredsG, and just as silly as ever!

I'm still searching for a way to express a general rule about when you want to stay on topic and when topic drift is welcome.

A help thread is a good example of the kind of thread where it's important to stay on topic and just post facts, not opinions; and to avoid cluttering it up with off-topic posts that don't contribute directly to solving the problem at hand.

I think we've been pretty good about that around here, but I've seen it on other boards. Someone will ask for help building a computer. Then one guy will post something helpful, only to be drowned out eleventy dozen posts about people's personal experiences with similar hardware that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. That's when the moderators ought to step in and split the thread or delete the off-topic posts.

On the other hand, topic drift in more social threads is a good thing. It suggests new topics where people can share experiences and knowledge and all sorts of silly humor.

[Zirconia Wolf]

As far as scary places to post (about Sims 2) goes, I would have to say that fight now that honor belongs to InSIM. Maybe things will settle down now that Eric & Kathy are "back in the saddle" for a while, but after everything that went down over the last couple months I'm shying a way for a while! (I did break down & answer a poor newbie's question about the different InSIM versions, but that's been it of late. )

MTS2 is getting increasingly annoying, especially now that I have to do battle with pop-up ads every time I go there.

Sun Sims is my hands down favorite Sims site. The rules are clear & fairly applied (no special treatment for a handful of "in-crowd" posters) & I have yet to see anyone filleted alive for asking a question, even if that question has already been asked/answered before. (The later is a personal peeve of mine about 99.9% of the websites- Sims or otherwise- out there! )

-ZW

[rdanner3]

Originally Posted by Zirconia Wolf

MTS2 is getting increasingly annoying, especially now that I have to do battle with pop-up ads every time I go there.

If you're using Firefox (not sure if there's an equivalent for IE for these two extensions yet) using NoScript in conjunction with AdBlock Plus pretty much slams the door on popups and ads all across the WWW.

[rdanner3]

Originally Posted by Zirconia Wolf

I have yet to see anyone filleted alive [on SunSims] for asking a question, even if that question has already been asked/answered before. (The later is a personal peeve of mine about 99.9% of the websites- Sims or otherwise- out there! )

Agreed. If I see a FAQ being asked, I try to refer them to the appropriate entry in the FAQ (database/knowledgebase/wiki) without undue comment, or to a thread that explains the same thing, whichever is appropriate. Being critical of newbies is so uncool.

[Greg]

It's very kind of you to say that, ZW!

I haven't been trying to keep up with the action on Insimenator or Insimadult for a long time so I'm not really familiar with the shenanigans there. I did notice a huge influx of sock puppets on Insimadult*, which is usually the gust front for a full-scale troll event. It's good to hear that Eric and Kathy are back minding the children!


Giving people a hard time for asking a question that has already been answered is behavior that I don't understand at all. It has never happened on any of the boards that I have been responsible for, but if it did, I'd treat it the same as any other jerky or trollish behavior.

Of course people ask the same questions repeatedly. That's why Frequently Asked Questions lists have been an institution on the Internet since even before the Wold Wide Web. The thing to do is to develop some nice, clear answers, with illustrations if possible; and then when people ask, give them links directly to the answers they seek. It makes them happy because they got the answers they needed and it makes you happy because you were able to help.

It's also a good way to go because even those who might not have a talent for writing answers to questions can say, "I know that one! Here's a link to the answer!"


Yeah, a lot of boards have "in" crowds. Maybe that's an advantage to being the friendly little pub on the corner--the minute you walk in the door, you're already a member of the "in" crowd! It's easy when we can keep the place relatively small; there's no need for a marching army of moderators and admins or any other special privileges that would send up barriers.

Sun Sims does have four distinct areas set up for individual artists, all artists whose stuff I hosted historically on SimsHost. We set that up way back when, soon after I told the webmasters that SimsHost would have to close by June 1, 2007. Now that I think of it, only Rose has really been using that area much so I probably ought to just distribute the things in the "Downloads from Sun Sims members" area.

I think there might be something to the fact that since I don't depend on lots of downloads to attract lots of members who will give me lots of money, I'm not obligated to bend any rules for anybody for fear they'll take their toys and leave. Insim couldn't survive without those donations and MTS2 is a for-profit business, so they don't have the luxury of being an equal-opportunity curmudgeon.


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*Sock puppets on Insimadult: When a group of new users suddenly appear and immediately start posting sophisticated notes and bumping each other's threads, that leads me to assume that they are sock puppets created by one or more experienced users who want to hide their identities. The whole thing could be perpetrated by a single individual.

An administrator could easily figure out who the sock puppets are by examining the IP addresses, unless the perpetrator is using an IP masking service. I have often wondered why they don't. (I block all known IP maskers from my boards. That dramatically cuts down on spammers.)

[Greg]

Originally Posted by rdanner3

If you're using Firefox (not sure if there's an equivalent for IE for these two extensions yet) using NoScript in conjunction with AdBlock Plus pretty much slams the door on popups and ads all across the WWW.

Yes, those features are built into whatever version of Internet Explorer I'm running. Somewhere around here I posted a note about how to add adbrite.com to your block sites list in IE. That helps a lot, too.

[Greg]

Here's some amusement: The newest version of vBulletin has an admin feature where with one single click you can totally snuff a spammer--delete all posts and ban the user.

I haven't installed that version yet, but I will as soon as I can get to it. Right now, I have to perform two seperate actions to delete and ban, and that can take as long as a whole 10 seconds!

[Miros1]

I believe Kelly has quite a bit of stuff in her area, although she hasn't been active lately. Sandy also put up quite a bit of new stuff last year around prom time. It's getting to be that time again, so she might be back!

[Greg]

I wasn't thinking of deleting anything, but rather just reorganizing it so that we don't have moribund forums sitting about. There's no big hurry to do that, though.