What's Due West of Alice Springs?

Greg · 06-20-2007, 01:05 PM

Hey Shorty, I have a question about Australia: What is due west of Alice Springs? I'm thinking of a very narrow track running due west from Alice Springs 1000 to 1500 miles long, say along the Tropic of Capricorn. I think that would take us to near Newman on the Great Northern Highway.

Western Australia

All the maps I can find are pretty much blank in that region. They show some hills or mountains but what kind of mountains? Does anybody live there? What is the terrain like?

I see Lake Disappointment along that track. What's it like?

Then there's the Gibson Desert. What's that like?

Miros1 · 06-20-2007, 06:51 PM

Don't tell him, Shorty! He's gonna crash a space ve-hick-le there!

Greg · 06-21-2007, 12:27 AM

Oh, I s'pose I could go for target area #2: Just a ways south of Buffalo for the initial impact point.

Miros1 · 06-21-2007, 02:46 AM

Lol, you'd probably hit one of the mountains instead of what you think you're aiming at. We got darn big hills here!

Greg · 06-21-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

Lol, you'd probably hit one of the mountains instead of what you think you're aiming at. We got darn big hills here!

Oh, I can do a job on those mountains!

That's another important question for Shorty, though: If something totally obliterated a track a couple of miles wide along the Tropic of Capricorn from Newman to Alice Springs, with zero collateral damage to anything outside that area, who would care?

There don't seem to be any roads in the area worthy of a cartographer's attention. Not much in the way of forests or watercourses or anything that would amuse people, but I suspect that somebody would be upset by this.

Yet another question: Who owns all that land?

shorty943 · 06-25-2007, 01:13 PM

Sorry Greg, I've been a bit busy the last couple of days. I just found this waiting for me.

Out that side of The Alice, what you see is what you get.
The Newman Range is Just about solid Iron Ore, don't hit that, it will really hurt.
From there to Alice, is red sand and gibber desert with low scrub and Spinefex bush. The inland of Australia is all massive pastoral or grazing leasehold "Stations". You call them ranches.
But, they are measured in square miles of area, because the acreages are huge. Ooh, yeah. The Droughtmaster. A home grown "whiteface" Hereford derivative.
Better you hit the mountain, it just don't pay to upset a Droughtmaster bull.

A track a couple of miles wide? Mate, no where big enough. It might take years to find it. Rocks, sticks, sand, a lizard or two. What collateral damage?

There are remote Aboriginal settlements, scattered all throughout our desert lands, out that way from memory the land belongs to the Atatadtjarra peoples.
These overlap with the Pitjajindjarra lands and the Arunta.
Very complex tribal and clan structure in the old civilisation.

A lot of the desert lands, have been returned to the stewardship of the original clans and tribes of the Aboriginal people. And then the Station leases are sub-leased, back to the pastoral holders.
Very complex, thank's to the "public servant".

But, I reckon no problems with crashing a space vehicle out there. We crash all sorts of stuff out there all the time. We crashed the very first vehicle that ever went out there. A Whippett Overlander.

FYI. It has long been my belief there should be a linear accelerator launcher out there. Near enough the Equator, to get some good impetus from Mother Earth in an East-wise launch. Plenty of room for a nice big long track.
Pine Gap, near Alice, for coms, Woomera not far South, and for night landings, keep the big green glow of Maralinga Atomic Testing Grounds to your south.
Lake Disappointment? Named perfectly. If you expect to see a lake there, you will be sadly disappointed.
What's it like out there? Picture Nevada's Death Valley, grab the corners, and stretch it out by a thousand miles more.
Give me plenty of warning, the Land Rover ain't fast. But, I'll be up there to meet the crew.

Miros1 · 06-25-2007, 01:29 PM

So as long as Greg doesn't actually hit an aboriginal tribe, no one will care?

shorty943 · 06-25-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

So as long as Greg doesn't actually hit an aboriginal tribe, no one will care?

Gotta be damned lucky to find them. They still live a fairly traditional nomadic life. Moving with seasonal variations white people still can't recognise, following ancient water and trading routes, traditional seasonal hunting grounds.

No one care? Hell, it will give us some thing to look at.

Greg · 06-25-2007, 06:25 PM

Thanks, Shorty! That ought to get me a lot farther down the road.

As a matter of fact, you got it right: My plan is to build a linear motor launcher along that very track. That is, a "mass driver." It's only science fiction, but hey, all human endeavor starts as a fictional scenario in someone's mind!

Oh yes, this will definitely give you something to look at!

I don't want to talk about the story too much because I have learned that I can either talk about a story or write it, but not both.

Greg · 06-25-2007, 06:32 PM

I thought of another question: What direction do the prevailing winds blow in that area?

Miros1 · 06-25-2007, 07:57 PM

Um, Greg... that's a trickier question than you realize. <vaguely remembers diagrams from Earth Science>

If I'm remembering correctly, the air rises at the equator and the poles, and falls at the Tropics of Capricorn and Cancer. Coriolis effects create the "prevailing" winds between them, but it's a crap shoot which way the wind blows in the rising and falling areas. Lemme find a chart...

Important info: http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Coriolis
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Coriolis_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

Hm, those references say the wind blows the same way everywhere in the southern hemisphere... Guess I shouldn't count on vague memories of 32 years ago...

Greg · 06-26-2007, 05:26 AM

Interestingly, the Wikipedia article on prevailing winds hints that the Tropic of Capricorn would be in the doldrums. That would imply that it's not very windy there most of the time, unless there are other things locally that drive the winds. That's a good thing.

To the north, the prevailing wind would blow from the southeast to the northwest, toward the equator.

That matches my experience living down here in the swamp near the tropic of Cancer. Unless there are storms in the area, the surface wind is usually light and from the west. Storms on the average move toward the west, but the all bets are off as to what direction the wind will be blowing at any give time.

North of the tropics, winds aloft would be blowing from west to east as warm air rises and then circulates back down to the surface; but the steering winds for big storms off the Atlantic tend to be easterlies. That's why those furshlugginer hurricanes have a bad habit of visiting the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts of the United States.

Oddly, we don't hear about the east coast of Australia being pummeled by big storms. I would expect it to be similar, with big winds coming from the Pacific; but this doesn't not appear to be the case. Something else is at work here.

Miros1 · 06-26-2007, 01:48 PM

Ah ha! I did remember right! Since the air is basically moving up or down, there's no perceptible wind!

BTW, Shorty did post something not too long ago about a storm damaging the coast of Australia, don't remember which one.

Greg · 06-26-2007, 05:09 PM

Yeah, big storms happen all the time; but if the east coast of Australia is a target for hurricanes the way the southeastern United States is, I haven't heard about it.

Miros1 · 06-26-2007, 06:54 PM

They're called "typhoons" in the Pacific, not hurricanes.

Greg · 06-27-2007, 04:30 AM

In which case, I've heard stories about Cairns being wiped out by typhoons every year, either.

shorty943 · 06-27-2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

In which case, I've heard stories about Cairns being wiped out by typhoons every year, either.

Sorry not quite right Miros. North of the equator, the storms are called typhoons, mainly hitting the South China Sea, and rotate the same direction of your Hurricane. South of the equator, they circulate clockwise and are called Cyclones. And yes, our east coast is regular lashed by Cyclones, every year at least 4 or 5 come in from the Pacific, then there are all the Indian Ocean Cyclones that surge down from the Himalaya's at the beginning of the Northern winter. Christmas day 1974, a Cyclone wiped out our Northern Capital, Darwin.
This year we had a couple come down the west coast and hit the US coms base at Exmouth, far north west coast.
Looking flat on from south to north, Australia's centre, is a big valley, The Great Dividing Range on the east coast, and the Hammersley's, Bungle Bungle's etc, on the west. Alice Springs has a depressed elevation. ( if you can get such a thing) IE, it sits about 600 feet below sea level.
Winter winds come from south west to south east. Summer winds are monsoonal, from the north.
Just 2 or 3 weeks ago we got hit by a massive storm over about 1,000 miles of our east coast. Massive damage and some 20 to 30 peoples lives lost. One, entire family, parents and 3 children, car swept of a bridge as the flood water collapsed it. Just washed the entire bridge, and road approaches away.
Possibly the reason you don't hear much is the corporate news people. With a population of just over 20 million people, we aren't worth much to the financial boys. You know the money chasers as well as I do.

Greg.
You want to build a linear accelerator, count me in. I can weld, drill, tap, bolt, hit things with big hammers. I'm in.
Yeehah, the foundation of the Amerstralian Space Agency.
Mah, me n Greg, are gonna build a space thing. Beauty.

Greg · 06-27-2007, 11:33 AM

OK, Shorty, you're on! There's always a wild chance that if I can finish this novel and make it interesting enough to read, somebody with enough influence to kick-start the project just might get interested. It's not likely, but stranger things have happened in the course of human events!

Greg · 06-27-2007, 11:35 AM

Oh, and it does sound like Australians get as much entertainment from ocean-borne weather as we do up here in Hurricane Alley!

Is it safe to assume that the effects of these storms don't penetrate as far as the area we're talking about?

shorty943 · 06-27-2007, 11:49 AM

Beauty.

Now for some tech updates.
I still run into trouble with those paintings. But, I seem to be "Okay-ish" with the posters now. Looks like some more swatting and sweating, then build a community lot and upload. Shorty's Poster Shack.

I'll get something back to this Sims community yet.

More tech updates.
This post, is being sent from the brand new installation of, Mandriva 2007, on my 64 bit Athlon 3800+, using the native KDE file browser Konqueror. Downloaded the ISO last night, burned, installed, booted, on the net, sweet. Fast, smooth, nice, got eye candy.
Oh baby, has this got eye candy. Mettisse desktop, 3D spinning cubes, apps come and go all over the place. And so much faster than MS Winslow XP SP2, on the very same machine. Yeah, I got my raid set and Linux up and running again, me a happy computer hobbyist again. No Linux and too many Windows, make Shorty, something, something.

06-20-2007, 01:05 PM	#1
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	What's Due West of Alice Springs? Hey Shorty, I have a question about Australia: What is due west of Alice Springs? I'm thinking of a very narrow track running due west from Alice Springs 1000 to 1500 miles long, say along the Tropic of Capricorn. I think that would take us to near Newman on the Great Northern Highway. Western Australia All the maps I can find are pretty much blank in that region. They show some hills or mountains but what kind of mountains? Does anybody live there? What is the terrain like? I see Lake Disappointment along that track. What's it like? Then there's the Gibson Desert. What's that like?

06-25-2007, 06:25 PM	#9
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Thanks, Shorty! That ought to get me a lot farther down the road. As a matter of fact, you got it right: My plan is to build a linear motor launcher along that very track. That is, a "mass driver." It's only science fiction, but hey, all human endeavor starts as a fictional scenario in someone's mind! Oh yes, this will definitely give you something to look at! I don't want to talk about the story too much because I have learned that I can either talk about a story or write it, but not both. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-25-2007, 06:32 PM	#10
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I thought of another question: What direction do the prevailing winds blow in that area? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-25-2007, 07:57 PM	#11
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Um, Greg... that's a trickier question than you realize. <vaguely remembers diagrams from Earth Science> If I'm remembering correctly, the air rises at the equator and the poles, and falls at the Tropics of Capricorn and Cancer. Coriolis effects create the "prevailing" winds between them, but it's a crap shoot which way the wind blows in the rising and falling areas. Lemme find a chart... Important info: http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Coriolis http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Coriolis_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect Hm, those references say the wind blows the same way everywhere in the southern hemisphere... Guess I shouldn't count on vague memories of 32 years ago... Last edited by Miros1 : 06-25-2007 at 08:04 PM.

06-26-2007, 05:26 AM	#12
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Interestingly, the Wikipedia article on prevailing winds hints that the Tropic of Capricorn would be in the doldrums. That would imply that it's not very windy there most of the time, unless there are other things locally that drive the winds. That's a good thing. To the north, the prevailing wind would blow from the southeast to the northwest, toward the equator. That matches my experience living down here in the swamp near the tropic of Cancer. Unless there are storms in the area, the surface wind is usually light and from the west. Storms on the average move toward the west, but the all bets are off as to what direction the wind will be blowing at any give time. North of the tropics, winds aloft would be blowing from west to east as warm air rises and then circulates back down to the surface; but the steering winds for big storms off the Atlantic tend to be easterlies. That's why those furshlugginer hurricanes have a bad habit of visiting the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts of the United States. Oddly, we don't hear about the east coast of Australia being pummeled by big storms. I would expect it to be similar, with big winds coming from the Pacific; but this doesn't not appear to be the case. Something else is at work here. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-20-2007, 06:51 PM	#2
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Don't tell him, Shorty! He's gonna crash a space ve-hick-le there!

06-21-2007, 12:27 AM	#3
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Oh, I s'pose I could go for target area #2: Just a ways south of Buffalo for the initial impact point.

06-21-2007, 02:46 AM	#4
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Lol, you'd probably hit one of the mountains instead of what you think you're aiming at. We got darn big hills here!

06-25-2007, 01:13 PM	#6
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Sorry Greg, I've been a bit busy the last couple of days. I just found this waiting for me. Out that side of The Alice, what you see is what you get. The Newman Range is Just about solid Iron Ore, don't hit that, it will really hurt. From there to Alice, is red sand and gibber desert with low scrub and Spinefex bush. The inland of Australia is all massive pastoral or grazing leasehold "Stations". You call them ranches. But, they are measured in square miles of area, because the acreages are huge. Ooh, yeah. The Droughtmaster. A home grown "whiteface" Hereford derivative. Better you hit the mountain, it just don't pay to upset a Droughtmaster bull. A track a couple of miles wide? Mate, no where big enough. It might take years to find it. Rocks, sticks, sand, a lizard or two. What collateral damage? There are remote Aboriginal settlements, scattered all throughout our desert lands, out that way from memory the land belongs to the Atatadtjarra peoples. These overlap with the Pitjajindjarra lands and the Arunta. Very complex tribal and clan structure in the old civilisation. A lot of the desert lands, have been returned to the stewardship of the original clans and tribes of the Aboriginal people. And then the Station leases are sub-leased, back to the pastoral holders. Very complex, thank's to the "public servant". But, I reckon no problems with crashing a space vehicle out there. We crash all sorts of stuff out there all the time. We crashed the very first vehicle that ever went out there. A Whippett Overlander. FYI. It has long been my belief there should be a linear accelerator launcher out there. Near enough the Equator, to get some good impetus from Mother Earth in an East-wise launch. Plenty of room for a nice big long track. Pine Gap, near Alice, for coms, Woomera not far South, and for night landings, keep the big green glow of Maralinga Atomic Testing Grounds to your south. Lake Disappointment? Named perfectly. If you expect to see a lake there, you will be sadly disappointed. What's it like out there? Picture Nevada's Death Valley, grab the corners, and stretch it out by a thousand miles more. Give me plenty of warning, the Land Rover ain't fast. But, I'll be up there to meet the crew.

06-25-2007, 01:29 PM	#7
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	So as long as Greg doesn't actually hit an aboriginal tribe, no one will care?

06-26-2007, 01:48 PM	#13
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Ah ha! I did remember right! Since the air is basically moving up or down, there's no perceptible wind! BTW, Shorty did post something not too long ago about a storm damaging the coast of Australia, don't remember which one.

06-26-2007, 05:09 PM	#14
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Yeah, big storms happen all the time; but if the east coast of Australia is a target for hurricanes the way the southeastern United States is, I haven't heard about it. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-26-2007, 06:54 PM	#15
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	They're called "typhoons" in the Pacific, not hurricanes.

06-27-2007, 04:30 AM	#16
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	In which case, I've heard stories about Cairns being wiped out by typhoons every year, either. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-27-2007, 11:33 AM	#18
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	OK, Shorty, you're on! There's always a wild chance that if I can finish this novel and make it interesting enough to read, somebody with enough influence to kick-start the project just might get interested. It's not likely, but stranger things have happened in the course of human events! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-27-2007, 11:35 AM	#19
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Oh, and it does sound like Australians get as much entertainment from ocean-borne weather as we do up here in Hurricane Alley! Is it safe to assume that the effects of these storms don't penetrate as far as the area we're talking about? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

06-27-2007, 11:49 AM	#20
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Beauty. Now for some tech updates. I still run into trouble with those paintings. But, I seem to be "Okay-ish" with the posters now. Looks like some more swatting and sweating, then build a community lot and upload. Shorty's Poster Shack. I'll get something back to this Sims community yet. More tech updates. This post, is being sent from the brand new installation of, Mandriva 2007, on my 64 bit Athlon 3800+, using the native KDE file browser Konqueror. Downloaded the ISO last night, burned, installed, booted, on the net, sweet. Fast, smooth, nice, got eye candy. Oh baby, has this got eye candy. Mettisse desktop, 3D spinning cubes, apps come and go all over the place. And so much faster than MS Winslow XP SP2, on the very same machine. Yeah, I got my raid set and Linux up and running again, me a happy computer hobbyist again. No Linux and too many Windows, make Shorty, something, something.