What do you know about NASA? - Page 3

shorty943 · 10-27-2007, 12:29 AM

Shiny blue link clicked and site bookmarked, thank you Mike, didn't know that site.

Saw the Chinese launch on the evening news here mid-week. The real race, she starts now.
That is, the race to see who can actually co-operate and get on.

I also saw in passing some item on Italian RAI news about Putin, re-hashing some junk about Kennedy and Cuba, not fluent enough to catch it properly.

But, mainly I think most of the world is worried about the same thing.
That middle east region.

They're worse than the "Martins and the Coys" that lot.

Me? I am in the midst of converting my old Land Rover, to a diesel engine to run on Bio-Fuel.

Greg · 10-27-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedelaney16

I think they just want us to think that they think that we want to get it going again. Perhaps Pres. Bush got through to them with his "you do the math" speech the other day.

I know it was pretty wretched for quite a long time there. Their air force pilots were losing tickets because they couldn't get enough fuel to keep current.

I must have missed the president's speech. What math should we be doing?

Greg · 10-27-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorty943

Me? I am in the midst of converting my old Land Rover, to a diesel engine to run on Bio-Fuel.

Does that mean you can run it on dead kangaroos?

I think it was the Hatfields who had difficulty getting on with the McCoys.

mikedelaney16 · 10-27-2007, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

Does that mean you can run it on dead kangaroos?

No, but he can run it on well filtered, or preferably refined and processed, used cooking oil. Just watch out for the government excise boys Shorty, the ones over here slapped duty on some guy who was producing his own bio fuel from rapeseed oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

I must have missed the president's speech. What math should we be doing?

That would be this one at the National Defense University:
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/15918
Or maybe try this video http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...23-3.wm.v.html from about 23 minutes in.

Unfortunately it seems to be getting this response: http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3780895

Miros1 · 10-27-2007, 05:17 PM

Dang. You can buy new cooking oil for under 69c/quart, so that's competitive with gasoline. What do you have to do to convert your car?

mikedelaney16 · 10-28-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

Dang. You can buy new cooking oil for under 69c/quart, so that's competitive with gasoline. What do you have to do to convert your car?

Pretty much just stick a decent modern diesel engine in it.

The stuff you buy for 69c will run a diesel, but you'd do better to refine it. http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/ might be a good place to start. Refining takes out the solids (especially from the used stuff) that might otherwise clog your system. They can also be used for making soap and candles etc.

shorty943 · 10-28-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedelaney16

No, but he can run it on well filtered, or preferably refined and processed, used cooking oil. Just watch out for the government excise boys Shorty, the ones over here slapped duty on some guy who was producing his own bio fuel from rapeseed oil.

That would be this one at the National Defense University:
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/15918
Or maybe try this video http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...23-3.wm.v.html from about 23 minutes in.

Unfortunately it seems to be getting this response: http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3780895

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedelaney16

Pretty much just stick a decent modern diesel engine in it.

The stuff you buy for 69c will run a diesel, but you'd do better to refine it. http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/ might be a good place to start. Refining takes out the solids (especially from the used stuff) that might otherwise clog your system. They can also be used for making soap and candles etc.

So many shiny blue links. Mike, your a gold mine.

"government excise boys", my mortal natural enemy.
Mother's family hail from Cornish stock, pirate'n is in the blood.

On the bush engineering side. Procure used cooking oil cheaper than that, at the local take away. They have to pay to have it taken away. Scratch their back a little.

Then.

Take a quantity of any vegetable oil (Canola we call it, Rapeseed is all same thing) add 15% v\v Methanol and 1% v\v Caustic Soda. Stand back, it will react,

wait for 24 hrs, drain and strain through an ordinary "over the counter" diesel filter, fill vehicle fuel tank, start diesel engine.

The only set back, is some diesels are not fond of the lower sulpher content, and burn compression rings etc.

Luckily, locally we have a forward thinking attitude.

South Australian Farm Fuels, produce and market "Bio-Diesel". A wonder juice.
So good the Australian Super Truck racing series is run exclusively on it. No more toxic black plumes of smoke from Mack's and Kenworth's. Toxic white burning rubber smoke yes, but toxic black exhaust smoke , no.

More horsepower, cleaner running, and for the first time in automotive history,
mechanics are reporting diesel engines to be "clean" inside.
To a mechanic, the diesel is a filthy dirty engine to work on, internally.
High detergent levels in the oils to remove varnishes that form from burning the dirty fuel that diesel is. This turns a brand new engine into a black filthy mess in no time flat. A brand new diesel, at it's first service, will look as black and dirty as a 20 year old neglected jalopy, internally.
But not any more, Bio- Diesel burns and runs clean.

Okay, so the tractor now smells like a fish and chip shop.

But, that's not such a bad thing.

My trusty old "Landy" is getting a Daihatsu 2.8 Ltr, GD series diesel engine.
Complete with "ADR 30" compliant pollution control systems and a new 5 speed over-drive gearbox.
I'm aiming for around 40 MPG, at half engine speed or 2500 RPM, at 60 MPH or 100 KPH in over-drive. Even high 30's would do.

I should also add, the final drive gearing will be different in most modern petrol or gasoline cars.
Modern "gas" engines turn over quite fast compared to a diesel, so you will get to top speed very quickly with "gas" gearing. That "top" speed will be rather slow though.

Greg · 10-29-2007, 12:23 AM

Fascinating! I never would have thought of trying to make my own diesel fuel from canola oil!

Now wait... let me figure this out... a gasoline engine runs at a higher rate of revolution than a diesel engine, so it's geared down more. So if I hooked up a slower-turning diesel engine, I would expect the vehicle to move more slowly... no... that's not it... oh, I'm lost!

shorty943 · 10-29-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

Fascinating! I never would have thought of trying to make my own diesel fuel from canola oil!

Now wait... let me figure this out... a gasoline engine runs at a higher rate of revolution than a diesel engine, so it's geared down more. So if I hooked up a slower-turning diesel engine, I would expect the vehicle to move more slowly... no... that's not it... oh, I'm lost!

That is correct. A slower revving engine with the same over-all gear ratios will be considerably slower in the top speed stakes.
Luckily, the diesel engine is much stronger torque wise, so can "pull taller gearing". That is, a closer input to output ratio. Tail or prop shaft to axle RPM ratios. Gear box ratio's, differential gear ratio's.
(I recall an experimental Mercedes, 5 cylinder diesel, high performance prototype from the late 1970's, early 1980's. Clocked at 320+ KPH at Nuremburgring. Tall gearing.)
This, combined with tire rotation distances, give the over-all final drive ratio.
Which by the way, does actually change with tire wear. Worn tires are smaller than new ones and actually travel less distance per rotation.
Minimal, but true.

Greg · 10-29-2007, 05:03 PM

I found out painfully how larger tires can throw off your instrumentation after Melva had larger tires installed on our old Bronco. An Arkansas state trooper was kind enough to write me a note to remind me that the speedometer read wrong after that.

shorty943 · 10-29-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

I found out painfully how larger tires can throw off your instrumentation after Melva had larger tires installed on our old Bronco. An Arkansas state trooper was kind enough to write me a note to remind me that the speedometer read wrong after that.

And now spare a thought for the poor old differential gears.
The scenario,.
We have a flat tire, we have a spare, but it is a different size to the "Big Boots" we show off with. So we stick it on any way and roar off down the road.
With both rear wheels turning at a different speed and the differential gears in the middle hollerin' fer help.
Oh sure, the big time speedway cars have different sized rear tires, and they also have a 7,000 dollar specially built rear axle to do a very specialized job.
Your average GM or Ford product will turn itself to pieces.

The tire diameter, and therefore its circumference is the last part of the mathematical equation that results in the "Final Drive Ratio" between engine crank shaft RPM, and drive wheel RPM for any given road speed and gear combination. Gearbox ratio's, differential gear ratio's and tire circumference, all add up to the Final Drive Ratio.
Yep, we are expected to be a mathematical genius just to be a grease monkey.

Same at sea. The angle of deflection of propeller blades, give a certain number of shaft revolutions per knot or nautical mile.

Same in aeronautics. It's still all school-room maths.

Applied Science. I like it.

Greg · 10-31-2007, 05:37 PM

Yeah. Ain't arithmetic fun?

shorty943 · 11-03-2007, 01:51 AM

I've got a small paper-back on just that subject.

Oh, wow, for, ahem, "copyright reasons" this edition of Martin Gardners, Mathematical Puzzle's and Diversions, is not for sale in the US or Canada.

That is the fine print on the back cover.

Now that's not right.
Damn it, he's an American. Born in Tulsa in 1914. Got his BA at Chicago.
Hm, maybe he upset McCarther.
Maybe the "good" Senator thought Mr. Martin subversive?
Too clever with numbers to be a good American?

Nah.
Probably some corporate thing to do with Penguin Books.

Corporate, it should be a cuss word.

mikedelaney16 · 11-07-2007, 05:18 PM

Some updates on current moon missions:
KAGUYA successfully takes images of the moon using HDTV camera! (JAXA website)

Chang'e One to brake for 3rd time (CCTV website)

shorty943 · 11-08-2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedelaney16

Some updates on current moon missions:
KAGUYA successfully takes images of the moon using HDTV camera! (JAXA website)

Chang'e One to brake for 3rd time (CCTV website)

Nice one, links clicked and bookmarked, thank you.

Miros1 · 11-08-2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorty943

I've got a small paper-back on just that subject.

Oh, wow, for, ahem, "copyright reasons" this edition of Martin Gardners, Mathematical Puzzle's and Diversions, is not for sale in the US or Canada.

That is the fine print on the back cover.

Now that's not right.
Damn it, he's an American. Born in Tulsa in 1914. Got his BA at Chicago.
Hm, maybe he upset McCarther.
Maybe the "good" Senator thought Mr. Martin subversive?
Too clever with numbers to be a good American?

Nah.
Probably some corporate thing to do with Penguin Books.

Corporate, it should be a cuss word.

Actually has nothing to do with Mr. Gardner's patriotism nor Penguin Books corporate policies. It's a matter of differences in copyright law among the three countries.

Living near the Canadian border, we've paid nasty duties on books we purchased in Canada and brought home. Books have ideas; they must be taxed to prevent people from taking them across international borders!

shorty943 · 11-08-2007, 09:49 AM

Right. Ideas are a bad thing. Got it.

Hang on. It's both.
Copyright laws? Oh yeah baby, they're corporate all the way through.

And no way baby does the G-man want us to get any silly ideas. Especially about Egality, Fraternity or Liberty.
I mean, who would our public servants boss around then.

Damn, that was an idea wasn't it.

Greg · 11-28-2007, 12:41 AM

It's some kind of arrangement between the British and American publishing houses. Almost every American book ends up ith a separate UK edition and that's what they sell Down Under.

shorty943 · 12-02-2007, 12:57 AM

That just has to be because of our English language oddities.

To us here, who use formal Oxford English. The English, the Queen of England speaks, American spelling is just plain wrong.

Then of course, according to Microsoft, if it ain't Merican English, It is a Foreign Language.

True, in our Aussie copies of Office etc, we find our "proper" dictionaries under "Foreign Languages".

Damnit Mrs Gates, you "grew up" a real dork.

Greg · 12-02-2007, 12:55 PM

Well hey, for anything published in America, any language other than American English is, by definition, a foreign language!

And I'm not making bets on the peculiar dialect they speak in Massachusettes.

10-29-2007, 12:23 AM	#48
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Fascinating! I never would have thought of trying to make my own diesel fuel from canola oil! Now wait... let me figure this out... a gasoline engine runs at a higher rate of revolution than a diesel engine, so it's geared down more. So if I hooked up a slower-turning diesel engine, I would expect the vehicle to move more slowly... no... that's not it... oh, I'm lost! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

10-29-2007, 05:03 PM	#50
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I found out painfully how larger tires can throw off your instrumentation after Melva had larger tires installed on our old Bronco. An Arkansas state trooper was kind enough to write me a note to remind me that the speedometer read wrong after that. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

10-31-2007, 05:37 PM	#52
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Yeah. Ain't arithmetic fun? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-08-2007, 09:49 AM	#57
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Right. Ideas are a bad thing. Got it. Hang on. It's both. Copyright laws? Oh yeah baby, they're corporate all the way through. And no way baby does the G-man want us to get any silly ideas. Especially about Egality, Fraternity or Liberty. I mean, who would our public servants boss around then. Damn, that was an idea wasn't it. Last edited by shorty943 : 11-08-2007 at 09:56 AM.

11-28-2007, 12:41 AM	#58
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	It's some kind of arrangement between the British and American publishing houses. Almost every American book ends up ith a separate UK edition and that's what they sell Down Under. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

10-27-2007, 12:29 AM	#41
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Shiny blue link clicked and site bookmarked, thank you Mike, didn't know that site. Saw the Chinese launch on the evening news here mid-week. The real race, she starts now. That is, the race to see who can actually co-operate and get on. I also saw in passing some item on Italian RAI news about Putin, re-hashing some junk about Kennedy and Cuba, not fluent enough to catch it properly. But, mainly I think most of the world is worried about the same thing. That middle east region. They're worse than the "Martins and the Coys" that lot. Me? I am in the midst of converting my old Land Rover, to a diesel engine to run on Bio-Fuel.

10-27-2007, 05:17 PM	#45
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Dang. You can buy new cooking oil for under 69c/quart, so that's competitive with gasoline. What do you have to do to convert your car?

11-03-2007, 01:51 AM	#53
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	I've got a small paper-back on just that subject. Oh, wow, for, ahem, "copyright reasons" this edition of Martin Gardners, Mathematical Puzzle's and Diversions, is not for sale in the US or Canada. That is the fine print on the back cover. Now that's not right. Damn it, he's an American. Born in Tulsa in 1914. Got his BA at Chicago. Hm, maybe he upset McCarther. Maybe the "good" Senator thought Mr. Martin subversive? Too clever with numbers to be a good American? Nah. Probably some *corporate* thing to do with Penguin Books. Corporate, it should be a cuss word.

11-07-2007, 05:18 PM	#54
mikedelaney16 Solar Max Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 201	Some updates on current moon missions: KAGUYA successfully takes images of the moon using HDTV camera! (JAXA website) Chang'e One to brake for 3rd time (CCTV website)

12-02-2007, 12:57 AM	#59
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	That just has to be because of our English language oddities. To us here, who use formal Oxford English. The English, the Queen of England speaks, American spelling is just plain wrong. Then of course, according to Microsoft, if it ain't Merican English, It is a Foreign Language. True, in our Aussie copies of Office etc, we find our "proper" dictionaries under "Foreign Languages". Damnit Mrs Gates, you "grew up" a real dork.

12-02-2007, 12:55 PM	#60
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Well hey, for anything published in America, any language other than American English is, by definition, a foreign language! And I'm not making bets on the peculiar dialect they speak in Massachusettes. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?