Second Life?

shorty943 · 02-11-2008, 12:04 AM

Has anybody here tried Second Life?

I delved into it last week.
I learned on day one, to stay out of the full on public areas.

But, if you can find a decent, like minded group of people.
Then enable voice chat. Suddenly it becomes a whole different thing.

Suddenly, you are actually in real time contact, with real human people.
Just like this forum, but in real time, with real peoples voices over the net.

I'm impressed so far. And. It is costing me the princely sum of, wait for it.
LESS, than the cost of a pack of cigarettes per month, to rent a very nice apartment, on a Mexican resort island. In fact in USD? $2.74 per week. $12 per month for a very nice apartment over looking the beach, and the Pacific Ocean.
In Sim of course, you can, if you wish, see the world through your Avatars eyes.

Not at all like The Sims in any way.

That's why I missed the Shuttle launch. I was in Mexico.

At a party on the beach below my hotel. Chatting to people from all over the world.

If you try it out.
Add Shortdog Philbin (don't ask

) to your list of friends and IM me.
I'll send you a teleport invitation to come visit me.
Add a headset or even just a mike, enable voice chat, and we can natter over the fence.

As it turns out. US PST dinner time, is lunch time the next day for me.
And I usually log on, for a while about lunch time. My time.

Hell, it's free, and if you don't like? Cancel your account and uninstall.

Sita · 02-11-2008, 12:34 AM

yay! another convert!

I think SL is great. Looked in on TSO again for a few weeks this Christmas, and was very disappointed. But I and hubby are hooked on SL. We both have property, where we entertain friends and I build. He doesn't - doesn't like the building tools. Will look for you Shorty, I play as Elspeth Guyot. Only real problem I have with it is too many of my friends are in different timezones to me.

shorty943 · 02-11-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sita

yay! another convert!

I think SL is great. Looked in on TSO again for a few weeks this Christmas, and was very disappointed. But I and hubby are hooked on SL. We both have property, where we entertain friends and I build. He doesn't - doesn't like the building tools. Will look for you Shorty, I play as Elspeth Guyot. Only real problem I have with it is too many of my friends are in different timezones to me.

Great.
I hope you've got vchat.

I'm at GMT+10.5 It's now 1610 GMT+10.5 Monday Feb 11.
And I'm logging on to add a new name to my friends list and send a tpi.

Greg · 02-11-2008, 12:12 PM

I really haven't tried it, but I do know that Second Life has definitely taken its toll on a the once-robust Sims community!

I would not be surprised if in some future iteration you were able to sit down with friends and watch the Shuttle launch together!

shorty943 · 02-11-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

I really haven't tried it, but I do know that Second Life has definitely taken its toll on a the once-robust Sims community!

I would not be surprised if in some future iteration you were able to sit down with friends and watch the Shuttle launch together!

Even better, buy your own Shuttle.
They're actually pretty cheap.
You can pick up a second hand one for less than 9000 game dollars.

A fully armed Navy corvette is only 950.

Pick up a stern wheeler house boat for a couple of hundred. Really nice, some of them.
Airplanes for about $15 game. Ever wanted to own your own F1 race car? About 50 bucks, game.
Boxes of free houses, give aways. Buy a block of land for $1 game and drop your house into place.
US $9.70 for 2,500 game dollars. Not a bad exchange rate.

Greg, it surpasses Sims any thing. It is not a game like Sims.
It's the same people we have been talking to for all this time.
But, we can invite each other to visit, and sit down and actually chat.
The bar at my hotel, over looks the beach, the pool is in front of the bar, deck chairs abounding.
Come and visit, I'll put on a party. It is adult, so the dancing etc is, ahem, romantic?
Civilized rules apply, no hanky panky in public etc. We are respectable, if fun loving, people.
Or.
We can take the families camping together in the Rockies for the weekend, then flit off to Milano, with the good lady wives, for the Opera on Sunday evening.

We are actually there. It's not a "Sim" as we are used to it.
The locations and avatars yes. But there is no coded script, we are the evolving script.

Teens have there own "sims", no cross-over allowed. At all.
There are policed public and family regions for them, and then mature, and adult only.
I reside in the mature world.

I've spent the evening talking with a girl (young woman) in Germany, her mother is in the USMC.
We went for a ride on a dragon's back.

You can do that in Second Life. You can even be a dragon if you want to.

Had a quick chat with Sita today. she's sweet. Busy girl.
I think she is a medieval lady.

People from all over the world are there all the time, hanging out and talking to each other. It's very good, when you get away from the madding crowd.

I reckon Anja would like it.

Our local police girl rides a grey dapple.

Don't take no crap either.

she shoots first, don't bother asking, too late now anyway.
Crime don't pay on Jalista.

Sita · 02-11-2008, 02:06 PM

haha mediaeval? lol You will mostly find Elspeth at jazz clubs

I was with my SL boyfriend this morning - a rare treat as he isn't able to get online very often. Buying Robin Hood outfits, his and hers, very pretty. Then we went wandering around a mountaintop and discovered a ruined Lost City. Later was fixing (RL) hubby's (SL) home for him. (That is the other thing I am often doing :P )

And there is a great Sim made by NASA - where yes you can see Shuttles - models made by I believe the people at NASA who made the initial 3D models, of all the shuttles. You can ride up to a space station too. Shorty I will take you there. That group has regular updates on all the missions.

But if you buy a Shuttle of your own, you may well find you can only fly it or even rez it, on your own land, so beware. Vehicles are a newbie trap...

Shorty I don't know that it is BETTER than Sims, just different - but it is fascinating. Lately I've been playing Sims 1, Sims 2, SL in about equal portions.

shorty943 · 02-11-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sita

haha mediaeval? lol You will mostly find Elspeth at jazz clubs

I was with my SL boyfriend this morning - a rare treat as he isn't able to get online very often. Buying Robin Hood outfits, his and hers, very pretty. Then we went wandering around a mountaintop and discovered a ruined Lost City. Later was fixing (RL) hubby's (SL) home for him. (That is the other thing I am often doing :P )

And there is a great Sim made by NASA - where yes you can see Shuttles - models made by I believe the people at NASA who made the initial 3D models, of all the shuttles. You can ride up to a space station too. Shorty I will take you there. That group has regular updates on all the missions.

But if you buy a Shuttle of your own, you may well find you can only fly it or even rez it, on your own land, so beware. Vehicles are a newbie trap...

Shorty I don't know that it is BETTER than Sims, just different - but it is fascinating. Lately I've been playing Sims 1, Sims 2, SL in about equal portions.

That's me, only ever open my mouth to change feet.

Sorry Sita, your SL name threw me off, Just like the medieval sim I stumbled into last week.

Whacko, just like that, 30,000 feet due up, and in orbit, ejected by the security system.

That took some figuring out.

Hang on, buying Robin Hood outfits? Umm, wasn't "Robin of Locksley" a medieval man? A good buddy, of Richard the Third, The Lionheart King.

No matter, I am an international man of mystery, who wears a white linen suit, and cultivates friendships with possibly unsavoury characters.

Just like in the Bogey and Bacall movies.

Jazz clubs? Cool. Not trad I hope.
I have a big VHS library of old club 54 footage of Billy Holiday, The Count, Fats Waller, Ellah, you name it. I love blues and jazz, zydeco jump, big band swing. And reggae, and, and.
Just don't like this new electric jangling "HOUSE" noise. NOISE, not music.
Bach wrote music. Bach's fugue's are wow. Baroque jam sessions.
When younger, I spent quite some time on stage myself with various bands.
The voice is more like Tom Waits now. No more tenor love ballads for shorty.
I sing the low notes now.

That is some thing I've noticed. You SL girls are friendlier. I like that.
And talking with people resident on the island. I understand how long it can take to set up a house in SL. Longer than RL.

A reporter for the island paper (Miss Candy Flanagan) took me to the Isle of Wyrms, she is a member, and a steampunk.

She teleported in to my place wearing a custom skin. A copper clockwork robot.

Great big key in her back turning away, and the gears in her head grinding.

I could see her thinking.

NASA is simmed? Oh yes please Sita.

See Shorty do many many happy puppy dances.
And noted on the vehicle side, thank you. I am being a little cautious.
I may have spent , ooh, not very much, to enjoy the company of some really nice people. That is no cost at all, to a man who spends most of the week alone on the farm.

Sita, and any others who may venture into SL. I hope you can enable voice chat. I truly do. You wonderful people have become a large part of my social life these days. And I would dearly love to hear your voices.

That my friends, is the marvel of SL to me. Company. Another human voice.
I do like that voice chat. The people I am meeting.

The sims2? I've un-installed it. AGAIN, the crashing mess of a thing it is now.
I may never re-install it.

Greg · 02-12-2008, 12:03 AM

When I last looked at Second Life, it looked like fun but the low resolution graphics sort of discouraged me from fooling around with it. It wasn't nearly as big back then as it is today.

Amazingly, the reason I looked at it was because Scotty and I were working on a 3D chat environment. We never got it developed, though. Everything we tried was just too dadgum slow and we didn't have the resources to develop a whole new client program.

mikedelaney16 · 02-12-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

I would not be surprised if in some future iteration you were able to sit down with friends and watch the Shuttle launch together!

Other than the issue of getting the feed into Second Life, you can already do that. The NASA CoLab area has a lecture theater, I've attended a couple of multimedia presentations there. These links are a bit old, but they should land you in the vicinity:
NASA CoLab http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/244/111/23
NASA CoLab Oregon L5 Project http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/55/207/25
Oregon L5 lava tube simulation http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/29/175/29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

When I last looked at Second Life, it looked like fun but the low resolution graphics sort of discouraged me from fooling around with it.

Your new machine should be able to do a better job on the graphics. The graphics card, cpu speed and RAM probably have more to do with the graphics quality than the bandwidth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

Amazingly, the reason I looked at it was because Scotty and I were working on a 3D chat environment. We never got it developed, though.

I think you could buy server space for your own world. They come in different shapes and sizes I believe.

shorty943 · 02-12-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedelaney16

Other than the issue of getting the feed into Second Life, you can already do that. The NASA CoLab area has a lecture theater, I've attended a couple of multimedia presentations there. These links are a bit old, but they should land you in the vicinity:
NASA CoLab http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/244/111/23
NASA CoLab Oregon L5 Project http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/55/207/25
Oregon L5 lava tube simulation http://slurl.com/secondlife/NASA%20CoLab/29/175/29

Your new machine should be able to do a better job on the graphics. The graphics card, cpu speed and RAM probably have more to do with the graphics quality than the bandwidth.

I think you could buy server space for your own world. They come in different shapes and sizes I believe.

You've done it again Mike.

You do come up with some gem addresses. NASA CoLab noted.

Thank you.

Like Mike says. Greg your new box will run the new Windlight viewer in sleep mode. And that my friend, is eye candy like I've never seen.

And again Mike is right. Sims can be owned, and operated, outside of Linden Labs control. Most appear to be run on Amazon class3 servers.
Once you own a sim, you can then sell or lease land and start banking.

And there is the reason the US litigation league, are now wailing. Sadly.
Someone got ripped off. Probably a less able con artist themselves.
But there is movement in the courts over it.

Miros1 · 02-12-2008, 10:46 AM

Given that there's a formal exchange rate between Linden dollars and US dollars, it is possible for people to earn lots of Linden dollars, then convert them to real money. It's the real money that the government wants a piece of!

They also want a piece of the money in other games that have a de facto exchange rate, but that's a bit more convoluted.

shorty943 · 02-13-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

Given that there's a formal exchange rate between Linden dollars and US dollars, it is possible for people to earn lots of Linden dollars, then convert them to real money. It's the real money that the government wants a piece of!

They also want a piece of the money in other games that have a de facto exchange rate, but that's a bit more convoluted.

I do understand that, however, the exchange rate is a bit left of center.
If you want to make money in SL!

Baby, you got to graft.

Current sx prices are:- US$9.74 = L$2,500

I just got offered a house on land, on the island, for L$12,000.
Nice house too. Ocean views. Private sea beach.

Where else can you get a double story home on land, for $15.
Even Sims2 is dearer than that.

For a free account holder like myself. There are protections.
There is a limit of US$10 credit in the system per week.
I can't "own" land, but at L$500\week, my hotel suit is grand.
That's about US$2.70.
I'd gladly pay that to be able to talk to people around the world, in real time.

I've put hundred's and hundred's of dollars into Sims 2, only to have it get more and more unstable and, these days at least, now too limited.
Sims 2 has become frustrating with the trouble it causes, and right here right now, SL is far and away the superior software, for me at least.

Damnit, now I'm beginning to sound like one of them advertising people.

But, my friends, I like VR. It's not like the movie "Lawnmower Man", and I hope it never becomes that. But it puts people in touch with each other. I like that.

Miros1 · 02-13-2008, 02:26 AM

Actually, that house is $46.75 US. (12,000/2,500*9.74). Still not much more than basic Sims 2.

Sita · 02-13-2008, 03:48 PM

Yes, mikedelaney16 great links! Shorty I totally agree about buying or renting some real estate in VR world - just like in the SF stories. But you may find, like me, that you use your "home" very little.... or you may be like my RL hubby who is a real homebody in SL, and loves to invite his friends home to his beach to dance or chat privately. My home is used now and then but mostly I build a new house there every other week or so, go shopping for nice furniture, pull it all down and start again... (A lot like Sims really)... most of my time is out and about.
Jazz - all kinds. And yes classical rocks! Yes, Robin of Locksley was a mediaeval story - but these are not mediaeval outfits... a bit draughty in the forest I reckon.
Elspeth is quite bohemian, creative and a little bit mad - I find my characters tend to be... will look for you ingame.

I heard the server software is to be made open source; then you really COULD make your own virtual world. Meanwhile the scam I heard about was concerning virtual banks - a sort of pyramid scheme encouraging people to bank their Linden $$ at a rate of 45% interest... of course as soon as there was enough in there, the prime culprit fled the country with loads of other people's money. Well what else would you expect? lol Scammers in SL work like scammers everywhere, on the premise that there is one born every minute.

Sita · 02-13-2008, 04:27 PM

On the space question:

"NGEC Plenary streamed live - 2/15 (:30 am SLT...NOW

Wed Feb 13 17:27:02 2008

Join us at the NASA CoLab sim at 9:30am slt (NOW) for the Plenary Opening Remarks on Day 2 of the Next Generation of Explorers Conference being held at Ames. Opening remarks will be give by Dr. Gale Allen, Director (acting), Strategic Integration and Management, ESMD, NASA HQ.

We are meeting at the mountaintop, Sun Amphitheater. We will be streaming the conference Tues - Friday.

http://www.nasacolab.org/schedule/394. Spread the word!"

Greg · 02-14-2008, 12:20 PM

Wow! Second Life is becoming more and more interesting!

I snooped around and saw that the graphics have greatly improved. I shouldn't be surprised at that, but I am.

My ony worry is that Second Life appears to be rather expensive, both in time and money.

Sita · 02-14-2008, 03:55 PM

You don't HAVE to spend anything at all.
Many of my friends don't.

Get a free trial membership; then there are places that GIVE away quite good quality stuff - search inworld for Warchild, for instance. Or you can camp (that's where the time comes in) for a few linden dollars (I am afraid I buy a few RL dollars worth at a time. Camping is boring and I love shopping

and you can buy stuff for 1L$ at various "newbie friendy places". You need real $$ mostly to get land.

Greg · 02-14-2008, 05:20 PM

I'll have to study up on camping! Obviously I'm a bit distracted at the moment by other urgent urgencies, but Second Life does look like a fun thing to do. Golly, if only there were more time in a day.

mikedelaney16 · 02-14-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sita

You need real $$ mostly to get land.

Mostly?

Do you mean to imply that it's possible to get land without real $$?

Sita · 02-14-2008, 08:48 PM

No - depends how much land you want I spose. You COULD get an SL "job" though they are few and far between, and use it to pay the rent on a small place. Land prices at the moment are quite low. A friend today just paid L$6 a square meter (that's the initial payment) but his tier will be a total of 59$US a month.That's a decent sized piece of land, comparable to a large lot in Sims 2, maybe the largest. (about 8000 sq meters). Big enough to make a pretty house - maybe not one of Greg's but large - and a lovely garden. That's very low compared to sometimes, it fluctuates.

I meant it's land you need money for more than anything else

)

Going shopping now....

02-11-2008, 12:04 AM	#1
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Second Life? Has anybody here tried Second Life? I delved into it last week. I learned on day one, to stay out of the full on public areas. But, if you can find a decent, like minded group of people. Then enable voice chat. Suddenly it becomes a whole different thing. Suddenly, you are actually in real time contact, with real human people. Just like this forum, but in real time, with real peoples voices over the net. I'm impressed so far. And. It is costing me the princely sum of, wait for it. LESS, than the cost of a pack of cigarettes per month, to rent a very nice apartment, on a Mexican resort island. In fact in USD? $2.74 per week. $12 per month for a very nice apartment over looking the beach, and the Pacific Ocean. In Sim of course, you can, if you wish, see the world through your Avatars eyes. Not at all like The Sims in any way. That's why I missed the Shuttle launch. I was in Mexico. At a party on the beach below my hotel. Chatting to people from all over the world. If you try it out. Add Shortdog Philbin (don't ask ) to your list of friends and IM me. I'll send you a teleport invitation to come visit me. Add a headset or even just a mike, enable voice chat, and we can natter over the fence. As it turns out. US PST dinner time, is lunch time the next day for me. And I usually log on, for a while about lunch time. My time. Hell, it's free, and if you don't like? Cancel your account and uninstall. Last edited by Greg : 02-11-2008 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Just changed the thread subject to be more understandable. :)

02-11-2008, 12:12 PM	#4
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I really haven't tried it, but I do know that Second Life has definitely taken its toll on a the once-robust Sims community! I would not be surprised if in some future iteration you were able to sit down with friends and watch the Shuttle launch together! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

02-12-2008, 12:03 AM	#8
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	When I last looked at Second Life, it looked like fun but the low resolution graphics sort of discouraged me from fooling around with it. It wasn't nearly as big back then as it is today. Amazingly, the reason I looked at it was because Scotty and I were working on a 3D chat environment. We never got it developed, though. Everything we tried was just too dadgum slow and we didn't have the resources to develop a whole new client program. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

02-14-2008, 12:20 PM	#16
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Wow! Second Life is becoming more and more interesting! I snooped around and saw that the graphics have greatly improved. I shouldn't be surprised at that, but I am. My ony worry is that Second Life appears to be rather expensive, both in time and money. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

02-14-2008, 05:20 PM	#18
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I'll have to study up on camping! Obviously I'm a bit distracted at the moment by other urgent urgencies, but Second Life does look like a fun thing to do. Golly, if only there were more time in a day. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

02-11-2008, 12:34 AM	#2
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	yay! another convert! I think SL is great. Looked in on TSO again for a few weeks this Christmas, and was very disappointed. But I and hubby are hooked on SL. We both have property, where we entertain friends and I build. He doesn't - doesn't like the building tools. Will look for you Shorty, I play as Elspeth Guyot. Only real problem I have with it is too many of my friends are in different timezones to me.

02-11-2008, 02:06 PM	#6
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	haha mediaeval? lol You will mostly find Elspeth at jazz clubs I was with my SL boyfriend this morning - a rare treat as he isn't able to get online very often. Buying Robin Hood outfits, his and hers, very pretty. Then we went wandering around a mountaintop and discovered a ruined Lost City. Later was fixing (RL) hubby's (SL) home for him. (That is the other thing I am often doing :P ) And there is a great Sim made by NASA - where yes you can see Shuttles - models made by I believe the people at NASA who made the initial 3D models, of all the shuttles. You can ride up to a space station too. Shorty I will take you there. That group has regular updates on all the missions. But if you buy a Shuttle of your own, you may well find you can only fly it or even rez it, on your own land, so beware. Vehicles are a newbie trap... Shorty I don't know that it is BETTER than Sims, just different - but it is fascinating. Lately I've been playing Sims 1, Sims 2, SL in about equal portions.

02-12-2008, 10:46 AM	#11
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Given that there's a formal exchange rate between Linden dollars and US dollars, it is possible for people to earn lots of Linden dollars, then convert them to real money. It's the real money that the government wants a piece of! They also want a piece of the money in other games that have a de facto exchange rate, but that's a bit more convoluted.

02-13-2008, 02:26 AM	#13
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Actually, that house is $46.75 US. (12,000/2,500*9.74). Still not much more than basic Sims 2.

02-13-2008, 03:48 PM	#14
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	Yes, mikedelaney16 great links! Shorty I totally agree about buying or renting some real estate in VR world - just like in the SF stories. But you may find, like me, that you use your "home" very little.... or you may be like my RL hubby who is a real homebody in SL, and loves to invite his friends home to his beach to dance or chat privately. My home is used now and then but mostly I build a new house there every other week or so, go shopping for nice furniture, pull it all down and start again... (A lot like Sims really)... most of my time is out and about. Jazz - all kinds. And yes classical rocks! Yes, Robin of Locksley was a mediaeval story - but these are not mediaeval outfits... a bit draughty in the forest I reckon. Elspeth is quite bohemian, creative and a little bit mad - I find my characters tend to be... will look for you ingame. I heard the server software is to be made open source; then you really COULD make your own virtual world. Meanwhile the scam I heard about was concerning virtual banks - a sort of pyramid scheme encouraging people to bank their Linden $$ at a rate of 45% interest... of course as soon as there was enough in there, the prime culprit fled the country with loads of other people's money. Well what else would you expect? lol Scammers in SL work like scammers everywhere, on the premise that there is one born every minute.

02-13-2008, 04:27 PM	#15
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	On the space question: "NGEC Plenary streamed live - 2/15 (:30 am SLT...NOW Wed Feb 13 17:27:02 2008 Join us at the NASA CoLab sim at 9:30am slt (NOW) for the Plenary Opening Remarks on Day 2 of the Next Generation of Explorers Conference being held at Ames. Opening remarks will be give by Dr. Gale Allen, Director (acting), Strategic Integration and Management, ESMD, NASA HQ. We are meeting at the mountaintop, Sun Amphitheater. We will be streaming the conference Tues - Friday. http://www.nasacolab.org/schedule/394. Spread the word!"

02-14-2008, 03:55 PM	#17
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	You don't HAVE to spend anything at all. Many of my friends don't. Get a free trial membership; then there are places that GIVE away quite good quality stuff - search inworld for Warchild, for instance. Or you can camp (that's where the time comes in) for a few linden dollars (I am afraid I buy a few RL dollars worth at a time. Camping is boring and I love shopping and you can buy stuff for 1L$ at various "newbie friendy places". You need real $$ mostly to get land.

02-14-2008, 08:48 PM	#20
Sita Solar Max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts: 371	No - depends how much land you want I spose. You COULD get an SL "job" though they are few and far between, and use it to pay the rent on a small place. Land prices at the moment are quite low. A friend today just paid L$6 a square meter (that's the initial payment) but his tier will be a total of 59$US a month.That's a decent sized piece of land, comparable to a large lot in Sims 2, maybe the largest. (about 8000 sq meters). Big enough to make a pretty house - maybe not one of Greg's but large - and a lovely garden. That's very low compared to sometimes, it fluctuates. I meant it's land you need money for more than anything else ) Going shopping now....